From razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 13 10:20:22 2002
Return-Path: <razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net>
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.netnoteinc.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA13A43C41
	for <jm@localhost>; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:17:52 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1]
	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:17:52 +0100 (IST)
Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net
    [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id
    g7CLUBb02369 for <jm-razor@jmason.org>; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:30:12 +0100
Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13]
    helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with
    esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17eMcc-0001YW-00; Mon,
    12 Aug 2002 14:21:06 -0700
Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.246]) by
    usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id
    17eMcA-0004Yh-00 for <razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net>; Mon,
    12 Aug 2002 14:20:38 -0700
Received: from user-1121e1b.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.32.184.43]
    helo=belphegore.hughes-family.org) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp
    (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17eMc2-0004QM-00; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:20:30 -0400
Received: from balam.hughes-family.org
    (adsl-67-118-234-50.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.118.234.50]) by
    belphegore.hughes-family.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAD330B6B;
    Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Re: What's wrong with the Razor servers now?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482)
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
To: Jehan <nahor@bravobrava.com>
From: "Craig R.Hughes" <craig@deersoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <aj8tcp$hvh$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-Id: <54059D4C-AE39-11D6-A15F-00039396ECF2@deersoft.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482)
Sender: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
X-Beenthere: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <mailto:razor-users-request@example.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:razor-users@example.sourceforge.net>
List-Subscribe: <https://example.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users>,
    <mailto:razor-users-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: <razor-users.example.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://example.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users>,
    <mailto:razor-users-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.geocrawler.com/redir-sf.php3?list=razor-users>
X-Original-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:20:29 -0700
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:20:29 -0700


On Monday, August 12, 2002, at 11:06  AM, Jehan wrote:

> Craig R.Hughes wrote:
>> This is, I think the biggest fallacy here.  You don't have to 
>> block jack shit to get a high trust rating, you just have to 
>> confirm Razor's existing opinion on a large number of messages:
>> if(check() == spam) then submit() else revoke()
>> That algorithm boosts trust, but reduces the information in 
>> SpamNet by damping.
>
> If you know a way to prevent people (spammer or not) to do that 
> while allowing you to do it, pray, tell me.
>
> And I imagine easily that if someone submit/revoke at a very 
> high rate, some alarm triggers on Razor's server resulting in 
> their user id to be disabled/deleted.
> I also suspect that the more you submit/revoke the same mail, 
> the less influence it has on your trust. And since there isn't 
> millions of different spam (it's always the same ones coming 
> back over and over with maybe one or two different words, i.e. 
> the same mail if fuzzy signatures work well), I guess that 
> spammer will reach there limit pretty quickly.

I was thinking you could easily create a spamtrap which you 
subscribe to lots of legitimate nonspam mailing lists, plus you 
also spread the email address around and get it in the hands of 
lots of spammers so it ends up receiving large quantities of 
both spam and nonspam, then you have it apply the algorithm 
above to the incoming mail stream.  So it could be thousands of 
actual real, different, emails per day.  The "very high rate 
triggers alarms" thing is certainly something which would be 
possible to check for, but there may be legitimate ways to 
exhibit this behavior -- can't think of one right now but "AOL 
proxy server" springs to mind as an example from another domain.

C



-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board
for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today!
http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31
_______________________________________________
Razor-users mailing list
Razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users